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Post by Terra Fire on Oct 19, 2004 16:01:24 GMT -5
All right, I know that this is most likely an old topic, but I want to hear people's opinions on this.
Some books are censored in certain schools, even high schools where most people are mature enough to read almost whatever they want. Examples are Harry Potter, Flowers in the Attic, Death of a Salesmen, The Great Gatsby, and Of Mice and Men. That's just to name a few. I did some research on it, and I thought it was quite interesting.
Anyway, I would just like to know what some of you have to say.
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Post by KarotsaMused on Oct 19, 2004 18:39:34 GMT -5
Wai-i-i... I suppose I can understand Harry Potter, what with all the ruckus it's been causing among the highly religious, but Gatsby? And Death of a Salesman? Oh. Wait. It's because of the adultery, isn't it?
I think censorship in books up to the high school level is pointless - people don't give their children enough credit for their own maturity. Of course, that's speaking as a girl who's in a pretty liberal public school system, but I don't really see the point of shielding someone from a book so great as Gatsby just because Myrtle got hit with a car. We see worse in movies and on television all the time, whether it be in the news, RealTV, or the movies they're not restricting to Pay-Per-View.
I just feel that that sort of censorship is ...a pathetic grasp at shielding an 'innocent child' from a world that isn't idyllic. When high schoolers (hell, middle schoolers) are exposed to worse than Harry Potter on a daily basis. It reminds me of when people blamed Marilyn Manson's music for the shootings at Columbine.
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Post by cesmith on Oct 19, 2004 21:31:51 GMT -5
I remember walking through a Barnes and Noble in Columbus, Ohio and there was a table with Banned books. I had never heard of this and was amazed at some of the books that were there. I can't remember specific titles, but there were some classics besides the ones you listed. Books that for decades have been considered required reading for most High Schoolers are now on someone's Politically Incorrect hit list.
KarotsaMused, I don't look at this censorship as a way of protecting and shielding an "Innocent Child" from the world. I look at it as a way of controling what they have access to and what viewpoints they might consider. I consider it dangerous to free thought and expression. A topic that should be close to the hearts of any and all Authors.
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Post by therhoda on Oct 19, 2004 21:50:49 GMT -5
Don't forget you banned Suess, The Lorax is a banned book. There are places it isn't legal to sell a Dr. Suess book because children might not realise that clear cutting is the right thing to do to forests!
I digress and am not getting on the soap box I see in front of me. Let me just say I hate to be censored
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Post by KarotsaMused on Oct 19, 2004 22:15:17 GMT -5
CeSmith - I said the same thing, on a much smaller perspective get what you're saying though. Some censorship is good. I mean, let's not bash rating systems or parental advisories on cds or ensuring that book jackets and titles aren't explicit or anything like that, but overt censorship, the crazy 'Harry Potter Kills Babies' sort of stuff is way out of line.
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Post by cesmith on Oct 19, 2004 22:43:35 GMT -5
KarotsaMused, I don't look at ratings as a form of censorship. I see them as advisory labels for what is contained in the product and *I* get to choose if I wish to ignore the warnings or not.
Book Banning is a whole other issue. That is pure censorship. It removes books from School Libraries and therefore makes them unavailable to many kids who might not be able to afford to buy the books themselves. Also, what's to stop the process from going to the next step? If they aren't good enough to be in our Government funded Public schools, why should they be found in our Government Funded Public Libraries? When we take one liberty for granted, many more can fall by the side without us even realizing it.
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Post by Me-Nuriko on Oct 20, 2004 2:32:24 GMT -5
I haven't heard much about censored books here. There was some talk when some highly religious private schools, had banned some books, Harry Potter among them.
But, right now there is a discussion about schools that still use some books that have been deemed 'wrong'. Only in this case it is the banned books that are prejudiced and bigoted. It's educational books, that still talk about homosexuality as something wrong. I can't help but think it's good that those are not allowed for use to educating the children. What do you think?
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Post by kanshu on Oct 20, 2004 3:10:42 GMT -5
As far as I know, the only banned book here in Germany is Hitler's "Mein Kampf". Outside of that one, the plain historic events (burning of books, imprisonment of authors) have people a bit on the edge about any kind of censoring. IMO, there's a fine line between protecting the interests of oneself (or one's own group), and forcing people to express their thoughts in just one direction. While authors who post what you call "political incorrect" material have to face the wrath of the audience, it still doesn't mean that they are forbidden to publish. However, if a book shop wants to sell their work is still up to the book shop owner. It's like with a webpage, you can't force the owner to take your material and post it, just because you have the right of free speech. The same goes for a publisher; you can't force anyone to publish what you write. Public libraries for one have a duty towards the citizens, which is to provide access to books, mainstream and controversial ones alike. On the other side, linraries run on a budget and have only limited space for storage available. Because of this, books are pre-selected by the staff. But can I force any library to carry my book, no matter how well it sells? Or does the same apply as with the bookshop or the publisher? It's a tricky question. For one, even if you can't find a book in a public library, that doesn't restrict you from buying it in the bookshop, or mail-ordering it from outside the country if none of your local publishers has published it. No library can be expected to have all books ever published in their stock. Many libraries form an 'exchange ring' where you can get books that one library doesn't carry from another one, this way increasing the total number of books available while each library doesn't stress its financial resources too much. What worries me more are the reasons behind not carrying a certain book. Books, controversial books, are neccessary to develope your thinking. That's why they should be read together and discussed, to help younger readers dealing with the questions that rise, and to help them understand the historical, social and personal connection that created the book. Saying that a book will poison the youths is, IMO, a plain admittance of failure of the 'parential/teacher/authority' side. If a book is able to poison the minds, then because the youth was left alone with it, because there was no one to talk to about the questions, no one who bothered to listen. That's my two cents about the topic.
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Post by cesmith on Oct 20, 2004 4:31:26 GMT -5
OptiMoose, I agree with you about many of the books being read together and discussed. Some of the books that are banned here are books that have been deemed classics for years. Yes, Tom Sawyer and other much older books discuss slavery and use derogatory racial terms. It's also an exciting adventure and paints a picture of this country's past. It makes a great springboard for discussion of race relations, the change of peoples attitudes and beliefs and so much more. Some issues do need to be discussed so that yesterdays lessons aren't forgotten today.
Dr. Seuss being Banned? The Lorax? That's just plain rediculous.
Me-Nuriko- Educational books that present topics of Moral issues and Personal choice should present both sides of an issue FACTUALLY, not have judgements one way or another. If They do make judgements, then that book should be updated. Education should be about opening a young person's mind, not teaching them how to close it.
I think I am a little sensitive to censorship of any type. It's always who's in charge or the loudest groups that force their beliefs on others. Also, since 9/11 we have seen small liberties slowly being blurred in the name of National Security.
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Post by Terra Fire on Oct 20, 2004 14:00:54 GMT -5
I couldn't aree more with everyone's opinions. The school that I go to is quite libreral. There is no banned books in my school. We just have books that they don't want us to read. For instance, "Flowers in the Attic", by V.C. Andrews. My school doesn't want us to read it, thought there is no rule that says was can't. Yet, we have to read Catcher in the Rye. Wouldn't you think that book is more controversle than Flowers in the Attic. Yea, the book may have incest, but not a lot of it. Catcher in the Rye has profanities on almost every page.
Anyway, the point I'm getting at, is why would schools censor certan books, while other books are deemed politicaly incorrect with even minnor content?
I'd have to agree with OptiMoose, the books that they deem politicaly incorrect should be talked about. If they think books corrupt the minds of small children, then perhaps the schools aren't doing such a good job. The point of reading books in schools, is to talk about them.
Also, two more books I found censored in some schools, are Othello and Macbeth. These are two clasics I think that should be read and talked about in all public high schools.
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Post by Terra Fire on Oct 20, 2004 14:40:20 GMT -5
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Post by cesmith on Oct 20, 2004 15:59:43 GMT -5
VG Terra, thanks for the lists. I'm curious, does anyone know of specific books that are banned in any schools? I would like to know what current ones are on the list.
I can't believe some of the books that are on these lists and the reasons.
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Post by Me-Nuriko on Oct 21, 2004 1:11:18 GMT -5
I haven't read all of these books of course, but quite many anyway. Some of them are even mandatory or encouraged to read in Swedish schools, like When they are read, they are being discussed, and sometimes essays have to be written about them.
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Post by cesmith on Oct 21, 2004 2:04:49 GMT -5
One thing many of these books have in common is they make you think and ask questions.
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Post by Terra Fire on Oct 21, 2004 8:58:21 GMT -5
Exacty, they make you ask questions. And people don't want to answer those questions.
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