Of A Place Long Ago

[Languish-Dreams]

*waves*

Yep. My monster fic got it's own thread. *grin* Anyone who's reading this I'll assume knows what happened, so I'll just skip that bit.

Anyway, I plan to make major revisions to this story. I mean MAJOR. I'm not talking spelling and grammar (although I could really use a beta for this puppy...) but plot revisions and re-working of chapters.

So. Is there any particular thing, for those of you who remember OAPLA or have it saved, that you think SHOULD be changed? Maybe a plot hole you noticed in the story or perhaps where something wasn't made clear? Maybe the characters are way OOC? Something you'd like to see changed in general? Maybe that putting the Kou-tachi in was a mistake?

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated! Spark some debate! Lemme feel the love (and hate, come onnnn) *grin*

[narrizan]

OOOH!!! Major! Changes! Well you know what Kanzeon would say..."unchanging things are boring" if you bring in the changes I have every faith in you that I will totally love it!

it will be interesting what you come up with... i'm sorry i wasn't much help. when you needed it! hee! but can i be give you lots of love, emotional support, teddy grahams and i won't even say anything about the cigs!!! oh and there's a lovely bakery near my house that does really awesome greentea bread! every time i take a bite i'll be sending you the vibes too!

much love as always! - zan

[Languish-Dreams]

*falls over and drools*

;D

[Terra]

First off: Hooray! I'm glad that we and future readers will see this fic again!

But since you're asking, I'll be firm.

1. I remember you had A/N in your paragraphs (actually, all your stories have this problem). It was very jarring and frankly, took away from the story. If you have author's notes, can you have them at the end or the beginning, not inside the story itself?

2. Since you sort of brought this up...

"Maybe that putting the Kou-tachi in was a mistake? "

Except I'd say Homura-tachi. The main problem I found with adding Homura's people was that the role they play could have easily been filled in by Kougaiji's people and/or original villains.
The cool thing about this fic is that I could easily view this as a possible occurence in some hypothetical fifth season. But if you add in Homura, it loses some of that element and becomes an AU because I start to think "It's cool but it never happened" instead of "Dude, this could so totally happen in the future!"
The fic is not AU until you put Homura in. All that stuff before it fit with at least what canon I know. Why make it AU if you don't have to?
However, the bits with Nataku are keepers. Again, Nataku doesn't have to be involved with the Homura people. Why can't he just be in the Heavens? Why can't Nii find him? Why can't some original villain find him? Why can't Nataku just fall somehow to earth and be lost to everyone in Heaven while some villagers help the poor "kid" out? Could you imagine Heaven running around, trying to figure out how a comatose boy went missing?

In summary, ditch in-story Author's Notes and Homura and keep Nataku.

Of course, it's your fic and these are just my opinions. But you did ask for them and since the rest of the fic is so good, I thought you might appreciate honest criticism.

Terra3, who is too lazy to sign in

[Terra]

Still too lazy to log in and I remembered something else.

3. In the anime (at least in the dub), Goku, while in Heaven, is hiding from Konzen and has a small monologue. In it, he mentions what the place he was from was like. Also, he mentions that "the people there were nice". So, if Goku remembers that much, Seiten Taisei must have known them as well.

Can you have a small explanation regarding who these people are and about what happened to these people and/or how Seiten Taisei truly felt about them?

Thanks.

Terra3

[LD Getting ready for work]

(Also too lazy to log in...heheh)

Ahhh thank you Terra. ;D I was starting to think everyone was too scared to say something or didn't have any ideas! Yay!

I do have to agree though. The in story author's notes were always my biggest problem. I'd write them out while I was writing the story and forget to go back and move them. They're being pulled this time around, along with the random Japanese. ^^

(chuckles) This didn't have a plot until around chapter 4 or 5 if I remember correctly. Up until that point I was doing nothing more than following the anime, but from Seiten's POV. The inclusion of Homura was to shadow the events of the anime as well - however, with the sudden appearance of Seiten, things naturallly became different. Up until the point in the story where they actually met Homura, the Sanzo-ikkou had never seen him before.

And I so could have handled that better.

I had a lot of mixed feelings about bringing Nataku into it. However, for the plot to be there, Homura and company have to exist in the story. My original intent was to shadow the events of the anime all the way until the end - including the 'New World' aspect and its creation. I didn't consider it an AU, but a 'what if' type of story. Though I have obviously failed since most of the readers (I had several people question this) didn't get it and more than one person ask me if this was an AU story.

So now I'll either scrap the plot and rethink the story completely, or rethink the plot and try to make it work better. I'd rather rethink the plot - mostly because I don't like to give up - but also because I thought the idea was fasinating.

The minute Seiten's presence was known the shift went from the events in the anime to what would happen now. So naturally none of it ever happened. The only way to stay with the anime or manga would be to keep Seiten's existence as I made him a secret; then it becomes nothing more than an introspective piece from his POV. Since I changed Seiten Taisei as he's presented in the anime and manga, I had to change some events accordingly once the party (well, Hakkai) became aware of him.

I hope I'm explaining what I was trying to do right. *L* At any rate, that's what I was up to. But more than one person did see that, which is one of the main reasons why I wanted to give the story a huge makeover.

As for the people - when I started I had forgotten about Goku's monologue bit where he mentions the people and about realizing he was on Earth. The story begins from Seiten's POV and stays there - Goku doesn't even 'exist' until the limiter is placed on him and he's taken to heaven. So right off the bat I changed canon events to create the story. There were mentions of people by Seiten in chapter one though. He found them disrespectful to the Earth and stayed away from them in general. ^^

I probably should have explained all this from the get-go, eh? *L* Ahh well. But now you know the workings of the story and what I was trying to accomplish. ;D Keep the advice rolling in! I have yet to decide what exactly to do, so anything's welcome.

[terra3]

Wait, I'm confused.

Are you saying that you are agreeing with my suggestion that Homura and company be cut or explaining why you want to keep them?

You can still use the people stuff. Maybe "Goku" thought people were nice because he likes everything and everyone?

Seiten Taisei: Mother, I hate humans!
Goku: Humans were fun!
ST: No, they weren't!
Goku: But they fed us all the time!
ST: That was poisoned bait, stupid!
Goku: But it was sure nice of them to think of us!
ST: Just go pick some flowers or something...
Goku: Okay! Pretty flowers for Konzen... Tralalala...
ST: Get me out of here!

Terra

[LD still lazy]

Neither really.

Basically I was explaining the purpose of having placed the Homura-tachi in the story in the first place. The story follows the anime from episode one to episode fifty - it naturally deviates to show my take of what would happen if Seiten Taisei were fully conscious of the world. Because I was following the anime, the inclusion of Homura was a non-issue at the time - it had to happen to remain true to events. The only difference being Homura's reaction and deviation from his plans to bring about the 'New World'.

Taking Homura out would basically scrap the original plot, something I'm not adverse to doing. It will be somewhat more difficult to include Nataku in the story without the Homura-tachi as a connecting factor - but it's doable and I'm willing to try, of course. ;D

I was simply trying to explain the premise behind the fic is all. I'm not the best with explanation though, forgive me.

As for the people - Actually I just realized I screwed something up big time. My back story for Seiten (which moves away from canon) is he was one being when he was 'born'. When the Gods placed the limiter on his head, they essentially split Seiten's soul - creating Goku. Therefore, Goku would have no memory of anything before the limiter was in place. Basic functions of speak, motor skills, and the like could be compared to a patient suffering from amnesia - while they don't know who they are and don't recognize certain things, they still retain the ability to speak, walk, and certain basic knowledges.

I just realized I bungled this up in chapter one, something I shall have to fix. The story isn't meant to be an AU, even with some aspects of canon changed; merely a 'what if Seiten Taisei were a conscious, understanding creature instead of a mindless monster'?

Seiten, of course, learned language through his observation of humans. But since Goku didn't technically 'exist' during this time, he wouldn't remember the humans themselves, just a concept of them and what they are.

I hope I'm explaining this right. The story's far more complicated than I probably made it seem when I was writing it. ^^ The thoughts are there in my head, but hard to put into words.

[kimradattei]

heylo. i decided to post while i was on at the moment (i just submitted the review for Chappy 3 like 5 seconds ago.

i regret that i didn't keep up with this fic. i read, i think, the first 5 chapters, then forgot to check back, but i remember loving it. reading the posts have helped me out though. also when i read it, i had just gotten into saiyuki (only having read volumes 3,5,6, and 7 at the time) but i've caught up as best as i can and know what's going on.

anyway, i do have msn messanger if you want to work out sometime to work stuff out for me to give you a hand with anything. i'm getting myself psyched up at the idea of being able to help out another author, especially after the hack job you went through. i'll check back here, or drop me a line.

talk to you later
Kimra Dattei

[LD logged out]

Ohhh absolutely! PM me with your e-mail address and I'll add you. I'm not on my computer right now, so I can't do much right now.

[Terra Fire]

Hey, I'm Baack! Alright, maybe for about ten minutes.

But anyway, I would have to agree with Terra about the who Homura-Au thing. I remember when I first started reading the fic I asked the same question. I think that if you add Homura in the picture it would be an AU.

The reason behind this is because we all know that in the canon, Homura dies. We also know everything that happen before then. If Homura is thrown into the picture, everything in your fic will have to happen before Homura dies. What I'm trying to say, is that it won't make sence to have Homura in the story without it being an AU. It's something I've always thought about while reading the story.

Am I making any sence? I hope so, I really haven't been myself lately. As for your fic, I can't really think of anything else at the moment. If I do, I'll find a way to tell you.

;}

~VGT~

[Languish-Dreams]

vgterra said:

Hey, I'm Baack! Alright, maybe for about ten minutes.

But anyway, I would have to agree with Terra about the who Homura-Au thing. I remember when I first started reading the fic I asked the same question. I think that if you add Homura in the picture it would be an AU.

The reason behind this is because we all know that in the canon, Homura dies. We also know everything that happen before then. If Homura is thrown into the picture, everything in your fic will have to happen before Homura dies. What I'm trying to say, is that it won't make sence to have Homura in the story without it being an AU. It's something I've always thought about while reading the story.

Am I making any sence? I hope so, I really haven't been myself lately. As for your fic, I can't really think of anything else at the moment. If I do, I'll find a way to tell you.

;}

~VGT~

Yes, but the story follows canon. It takes place BEFORE the Homura arc started. Therefore, Homura is still alive. The story is nothing more than the difference between what happened in the 50 episode anime and what WOULD happen if this one thing was changed during that time. It's meant to take place before and during the Homura arc; not after Homura's dead. I still suck at explaining myself. ;D Maybe I should scrap the whole idea and go from scratch. *L*

[narrizan]

well maybe not scrap the whole idea, but maybe you could insert a little back story or side story to explain the timeline (hmm now that i've just said that i don't know if that made any sense )
because if you take homura out then you would have to take shien out i guess...and actually the interaction between nataku and shien is too interesting and intriguing to let go of really...but that's just me i guess. i hope this helps in some way! lol-
zan

[Terra too lazy to login]

Since we're debating this...

In my opinion, the parts with Homura were the weakest. The fic could have easily gone like this:

1. ST is mad about being trapped.
2. ST learns to control Goku.
3. Goku gets freaked out by ST dreamscape stuff.
4. ST talks to Hakkai.
5. Goku and ST reach an understanding.
6. Goku and ST join. Hilarity ensues.
7. Following quickly by angst since Nii did something funky with Goku's brain (I think?)
8. Goku/ST run away.
9. Sanzo party gives chase.
10. Goku finds Lirin.

Until number 6 or 7, Homura is not important. And his role could easily be filled in by Kougaiji (or some other Kushu minion) or an original character.

Sure, the interaction with the gods is cool but essentially the weakest part. And you keep saying that you need Homura to have Nataku. If that really is the case, then cut Nataku too.

It's what I said before: The main charm of the work is that this could really be true; this really could happen in the future! Adding Homura in takes that away, in my opinion.

[Endee]

Cut Nataku?
I thought that as Goku starts to remember what happen 500 years ago, the role of Nataku could be (is) great!
About Homura... well I'm not very objective since it's a character I like a lot but... I'm not very objective! I don't find the parts with Homura are the weakest parts, I just didn't know where it was going... But I was letting the fic guide me with pleasure!