|
Post by Blood_Debt on Oct 19, 2004 19:30:09 GMT -5
Hi! ;D
The lazy newbie here!!! AS you have probably figured, I need a beta! It's a Saiyuki fic, halfway done, very probably Mary-Sue, and I'm trying to change all that...
All equates to "I NEED HELP!!!"
*Cheesy grin*
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Oct 19, 2004 20:56:34 GMT -5
hmm... Well.. to stat with what is the plot?
Why do you think it might be a Mary Sue?
Mayhaps we can identify some problems here on the board with everyones help. ;D
BTW if I haven't mentioned it before Welcome!!!
|
|
|
Post by KarotsaMused on Oct 19, 2004 22:16:58 GMT -5
Hello *waves* Formidable SN, oh indebtor (or indebted?) but we're all willing to help. Sal's the master of grammar, we've all learned that much And we've all got overactive mary-sue detectors ;D so let us in on some stuff and we'll do our best to help y'out!
|
|
|
Post by elven dreamer on Oct 20, 2004 2:58:28 GMT -5
Hi I am not actually replying to your summons for a beta, Blood_Debt, as I am not the best of authors/betas, though I am willing to help you out if want. However I would like to request one also as I dislike having betas that are people that I actually know as they are the hardest to take criticism from, in my view. I am writing a Saiyuki piece for the '42 Days' competition and would like a beta as I do not have much confidence in my own writing ability...I am lacking in reviews...like, big time! And I don't write Saiyuki fanfiction, so I do need some ideas there. Anyone who is willing to help me, please get back to me soon, as I am halfway to finishing this piece and would like it beta-ed as soon as I finish as I always seem to lose interest in my stories pretty quickly. I only discovered the competition today so I nearly lost it when I saw the deadline! If I get any positive response to this post, I will put up a basic idea of the story when complete and hopefully one (or hopefully more than one!!) of you will remotely want to beta it. rainfall
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Oct 20, 2004 10:47:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't call myself the master of grammar. I do like helping people at though. Rhoda says I'm a big softie. Though I really do like helping everyone! Rainfall: Didn't know if you noticed, but there is an entire general board dedicated to helping people out with their fanfic plots or other things involving writing. If you start a thread there about your story, you might get a better response. There are some people who just check the general boards and only specific authors under the author boards. Welcome to the Board! There are lots of really nice people around here that will be more than willing to help you out.
|
|
|
Post by therhoda on Oct 20, 2004 11:01:57 GMT -5
Hey don't worry about the dreaded Mary Sue tag. I mean yes we make fun of the stereo type, but who is not to say yours wouldn't be the one out of a thousand that works. What counts here is that you try and we try to help you. Here on this board we want to help each other get better! Which I for one am willing to let happen.
If You would like me to beta your story to see how it reads I will. But I warn will you I am not going to tell you it is the great american novel if it isn't, but I also know how hard it is to to your best so I will try and be encouraging too.
|
|
|
Post by Blood_Debt on Oct 21, 2004 1:41:41 GMT -5
Alrighty then! therhoda, if you're really sure, I'll contact you Here's the link for anyone bored enough to go read it. www.animespiral.com/viewuser.php?uid=3271&PHPSESSID=ace9f1a52aca9f3fda1983af72dfb21e (click on Balancing the Worlds) It's not going to be published on fanfic.net yet, but I'm leaving it on animespiral because of the reviews! ;D Salmastryon: I compared my story to a checklist, and here goes: The four girls were transported to Togenkyo after finding a sutra. Three of them are paired. None, thankfully, are that beautiful (one less thing to rectify), but three of them have magical weapons (because they're Youkai), and the other one has a gun- obviously paired to Sanzo... now see why I need help? KarotsaMused: My name actually has nothing to do with my real personality, I had just read a poem, and I realized that blood was probably the most precious currency to pay in. (God, that sounds so stupid) but hopefully, you get my drift.
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Oct 21, 2004 6:44:13 GMT -5
Well.... before we can go into helping you fix things I've got some questions for you to think about.
What is the message/theme/goal of your story? Is it just an adventure or is it a romance or is it both?
Do you have a plot from beginning to end worked out? Or are you just writing as you go?
Will the girls eventually go back home? Do the girls want to go back home or would they rather stay?
Where exactly were they tansported from? are they like their female conterparts from a parallel world?
What are you trying to accomplish in writing this story? Are you just trying to get a plot bunny out of your head? Are you writing a story a friend requested? Did you think hey this is an awesome idea I want to share it with everyone? Basically what you want to get out of this story.
Those questions will give us a little idea on where you are heading. Also some of them while help you start to work on the problem yourself. You don't necessarily have to give us detailed answers but if you try to aim for a paragraph answer at least to each question then you know you've made a big step toward fully exploring the question
|
|
|
Post by Blood_Debt on Oct 21, 2004 23:44:00 GMT -5
Salmastryon: Okay, here goes. It was intended to be a adventure/romance fiction, I started off writing by myself, then one of my friends started to write with me, as I based one of the characters on her, and she wrote all the Yumi(her)/Goku romance. I started plotless, writing where the wind took me, but now I have worked out a plot, and what happens in each chapter. I have five more to go, and have written nineteen so far, but it's only about 25,000 words long (short chapters, I admit) The girls are happy in Togenkyo, but I'm aiming to get them back to the 'real' world for a sequel, ambitious 'ol me. The girl were transported from 'this' world after finding a sutra in the park, which one, I don't know, they miss 'their' world, but again, enjoy living in Togenkyo. This story was written for me, mostly, as a little fantasy for my friends and I, but I now want to improve it and release for everyone's pleasure. I think that's all...
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Oct 22, 2004 8:28:21 GMT -5
hmm... I forgot one question ^^;
Are you planning on editing/rewriting what has been written before or just improve what you have yet to write?
After I get the answer to that one, I can give some suggestions on were to go next to improve your story.
|
|
|
Post by kanshu on Oct 22, 2004 12:00:44 GMT -5
I agree with Salma... the question is, do you want to rewrite the entire story, or 'change the future'. I do see a major problem in making the story attractive for a general audience, since the focuss is on the girls - they are the key characters. The Sanzo-gang only serves as love interest (very rudely speaking).
To attract a general audience outside of the girls you write about, you will need to refocuss on the original lead characters again. They should drive the plot, not react only.
|
|
|
Post by Blood_Debt on Oct 22, 2004 23:48:37 GMT -5
I am planning on rewriting it, as it really is kinda soppy right now.
Tell me how!!! I'll take any suggestions, even if they include sticking my head down the toilet!!! I'm that desperate- I re-read it the other day and nearly fainted... @_@
As long as I stay roughly close to the plot, I'm happy ^_^
|
|
|
Post by kanshu on Oct 23, 2004 2:44:00 GMT -5
I somewhat doubt that sticking your head into the toilet will improve the quality of your story. Okay... a few thoughts on chapter 1: You start out with lengthy explanations about the girls. Not that tthat in itself is a bad idea, but remember that the reader is a fan of the Saiyuki guys, not the four girls. "And everything went black." would be a great spot to change over to the goddess POV. describe the arrival later. The Goddess... I know this question sounds silly, but... what are her motives to make you her acolytes? Why doesn't she just send you over to help? Acoltytes requires that your characters are connected to hir in some fashion, and it's also like some... extra high rank. They are not just girls, they are the trainees of the goddess... How did your character know that they are in the world of Gensoumaden Saiyuki? It could mean the originqal world with a Tang priest, a monkey king, a half human-half pig pervert named Cho Hakkai and an ugly sandmoster named Sandmonk... The world of Saiyuki is a manga and TV world when you approach it from our reality. Keep that in mind, since you either would have to turn into manga/anime characters yourself, or that world would have to go 'real', there will have to be some kind of change. Going for 'real' means that the characters change their looks to more human proportions. Minekura did a great real-life sketch of SAnzo, and he looks very different from what I would have expected after seeing all the manga/anime pics. www.minekura.com/gallery/gallery_p12.html Then, your characters have just arrived and fight with demons - and win. Demons are physically stronger than humans. And I don't know, but it *I* was dropped into a strange, new world where I am attacked, I would scream and run. Do your characters have some extra training that allows them to fight the demons? Outside of that the goddess gave them extra-powers. What makes them overcome the "I must run" instinct, and makes them fight? How do they *know* how to fight? Communication in general is a problem. The language is Chinese (or Tougenkou's version of Chinese), not Japanese. Even if it's Japanese - Your characters should not be able to understand them at all, unless they know the language (from school classes, perhaps?), or unless the transfer made them able to understand all of a sudden. Changing the names? Why do you do that? Of course, your names sound strange, but they are your character's names and identities. New names might sound cool, but I wouldn't change unless there's a solid reason. Your character, Hinata, gets worked up over having killed youkai. That's all nice, but it also would require her to have deep, religious/moral feelings about taking life before she came over to Sai-World. Sanzo, for example, grew up being trained as a buddhist, and no matter what he says about not following the believes, they rule his life and way of thinking even now. Otherwise, he would not have felt guilty for killing many people in self defense in the years before he met Goku. There's more to it, like taking martial arts classes (what exactly are your characters learning there? Kung-Fu? Karate? Taek-Won-Do?), and running a dojo and give martial arts training in the course of one year. The mask your character wears... I know that it's important for later, but how about if you *show* the reader an event where she walks out without a mask, and when people look into her face she thinks all the people see are her scars? Her face-centeredness is a weakness, of course, but she's behaving like her face-scarf is now hiding some ultra-cool secret. And the villager's reactions are very unlikely. Wouldn't they think of her as a demon, that she's hiding her face? REmember that people got killed in the village, and that means they trust no one. BTW, what about things like being homesick? Don't the girls ave love interests back home? Or people that they really would like to meet again? Friends at school? A job interview, maybe? What are their ties to their past, and their future in their original world? No matter how cool and interesting Sai-World is, but that means that they just cut off their entire life. So, that are a few thoughts about the first chapter. Those are things I wonder about as a reader when reading through it. Though, I guess that Salma will have much more useful comments for you than my ramblings.
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Oct 23, 2004 11:51:13 GMT -5
Hey those are all very useful comments!! ;D Well, since OptiMoose has a good start on the nitty gritty details, I'm going to deal with the more general ideals. First off, I've got some bad news for you. Gomen, but your story as it is, is a romance not adventure/romance. So, one of our first steps will be to fix this. Second, I've got more bad news for you. No matter how much you improve this story, there will be people who will hate it because of your four ladies. There is nothing you can do about it. Also, no matter how hard you try to center on the guys and make sure your characters are not Mary Sues, people will accuse you of doing a self insertion fic or writing Mary Sues. You probably will get flamed too. Despite this, There is good news, too. You CAN write a really good fic with your initial premise. There WILL be people who will enjoy it. People on this board will support you. Plus, I've got some flame retardant gear for you. ;D But, I digress How to improve your story? You said you'd be willing to stick your "head down the toilet;" unfortunately, the task will be much harder than that. You'll be hacking your baby apart, and since you are trying to change the story to fit a more mass audience, that means you'll have to make concessions to their likes and tastes and remove things you like. All in all, I think it will be much more traumatizing then sticking your head in the toilet. You will come out of the experience a much better writer, though. For the sake of your sanity, I suggest that you start the story over fresh, pretend like you haven't written anything. This doesn't mean you can't cheat later by stealing some passages from the old story, but in the end you'll have a lot easier time of it during the rewrite. View the first version of the story as your brainstorm. Freewriting, like you've done with the story in the begining, is one method some authors use to get their ideas and work out their plots in different ways. However, it is just the first step in fleshing out the plot and story. Since we already have the basic kernal of a idea from what you've already written "Four girls get transported to the saiyuki universe," you've got a head start in this process. But, that idea doesn't give you an adventure yet. In order to have an adventure, you need conflict and a villian. The conflict can be internal, in the characters' own minds and they can be their own worst enemies, but you need to have something or someone for them to face in conflict. So, what type of conflict do you want your story to have? I don't know about your literature courses, but one of my literature teachers taught me this, which I try to apply to every story I write. There are five basic types of conflict: - Man vs. Man - The character's in conflict with other individuals.
- Man vs. Society - The character's in conflict with a society either his own or anothers.
- Man vs. Himself - The character is dealing with some inner conflict.
- Man vs. Nature/Machine - The character is dealing trying to survive in the wilderness or against technology itself.(this is not personified nature or wilderness)
- Man vs. Omnipotent - The character is against something outside his understanding and his ability to defeat.(Again the Character isn't relating to whatever he's facing as if he's facing off mano y mano)]
Most adventure stories are one of the first three. Also, keep in mind that any good story has more than one conflict. What I'm speaking of is the arcing conflict that ties the whole story together. I would suggest picking the Man vs. Man for your story. Which means you need a villian. So, keep in mind what I've said about conflict, and check out the "Please make it End" thread in the Techniques section. There is some helpful information there about notes and plot lines. Then sit down and make an outline of your plot. I'd keep in mind the stuff that OptiMoose has pointed out when you do it. Often the little details can give you great ideas on where to take the larger plot. If you are plotting a sequel do a general plot of that too, at the same time. That way you won't have to worry about any inconsistancies.
|
|
|
Post by Blood_Debt on Oct 24, 2004 3:02:48 GMT -5
ARGHHHHH!!! I just spend half an hour typing out my other reply and it got deleted!!! But here's the gist of what I wrote before: Ramblings *peers at screen* I see no ramblings. Now that's what I call a reality check. I think I will stick my head down the loo. It sounds easier. Oh well, at least I'm hyper, so it doesn't affect me too much. However, if I wake up crying tomorrow, I know who to blame Righty-o. I'm typing everything out before I get started in case there are anymore mistakes. Kanzeon will have had one of her whimsical 'stick people on earth to save it and see how they handle it' thingygummies, and the girl were also originally in heaven. I was thinking of the girls going anime- I even drew them in my strange stick character ways. I actually did change their original names to Hinata/Yumi/Chinoi etc etc about a week ago, because I decided it was also confusing. I'm just lazy *ducks flying tomatoes and other flying vegetibibbles* I will get rid of the 'must fight' bit. Perhaps it would be better if they ran/got captured, or is that too cliche? *Sanzo, save me! * Talking... I tried to avoid that issue in my story. They either learnt Chinese in school (it actually is an option in mine), but for two of them, it is a first language. As to villains, I'd love to do one Naraku-style. Roger Wilco and out. I will continue next time I am allowed near the computer.
|
|