Personal Space and Social Behavior in Japan

[Salmastryon]

OptiMoose and I were discussing public, personal and intimate space for a fic of hers(I'm sure most of you know can guess which one) today. She had noticed that Gojyo invades Sanzo's space and touches him all the time which always makes grouchy sanzo more grouchy. Gojyo is also always touching and invading Goku's space. But, Gojyo never touches Hakkai.

One thing lead to another and we ended up talking about Individual society verus Group society. Now, when I was in Japan I attended a very interesting lecture on the topic. I'm going to attempt to summarize a great lecture, and believe me I'm not doing it justice.

Western society is often considered an individualistic society. This does not mean they don't consider themselves part of a group. The individual choose/wants to be part of a large group. What my japanese lecturer found fasinating is that while the society proports the importants of the individual, the individuals in the society go to great lengths to confirm to these large groups.

Japanese society is considered a group society. Meaning that the members of the society put the wealthfare of the group above that of the individual. The big difference is that the groups are small. Each member of the group knows the others on a personal level. While their are larger groups to become a member of they don't have as much importance.

An example given of this is the university paraphernalia. In the US and Canada if you've attended a university or college you probably have more then one item with said university's logo. In Japan, you'll be luck to find two items with the universities name on it.

Japan, at the time of the lecture, also had less civil suits or reports of domestic disturbances. Not so much because their was less intances but because it wouldn't be good for the whole of the community.

So, what relevance does that have with the personal interactions of the sanzo-tachi or other anime characters? Is this analyse event valid to anime characters? And what does any of this have to do with personal space?

OptiMoose and I discussed this for about an hour. OptiMoose thought it would make a great thread. Not to mention I'd be interested in different view points. I'll post my thoughts on this later. I'm sure OptiMoose will too.

[kanshu]

You forget that OptiMoose listened and you talked, and that OptiMoose had fever, too, and really could not sit on the chair any longer....

I'd like to know what would be the revelance is - because I see the characters with the eyes of a Westerner, and interpret their reactions "Western style"...

[Me-Nuriko]

An initial thought. Aren't the Sanzo-tachi technically Chinese? Is the social behavior the same in China as in Japan?

Besides from that, I'm very interested in the topic and like to hear more.

[Salmastryon]

Hey, I'm fighting the sinus infection of doom here Although, I will fully admit I was curled up in blankets with my laptop and not sitting at my desktop.

As for relevance, it really depends what your aim is. In my cultural anthropology class, my teacher was found of saying that no matter how acclimated one became to a culture there would always remain some ethnocentrism.

Bit of a break here for vocab lesson. Enthocentrism: The tendency to evaluate other groups according to the values and standards of one's own ethnic group, especially with the conviction that one's own ethnic group is superior to the other groups.

Personally, I always took this statement with a grain of salt. I think no matter how familiar you become with a culture you will still have moments of culture shock since, you won't have the instinctive ability to navigate the culture. BTW, I now it sounds nasty but you can't avoid being ethnocentric. Even being openminded is ethnocentric. ;D

But, onto the topic at hand, relevence. One of the things that makes Minekura's work and others that I'm not going to go into here so engaging for me is the ability to rip them apart. Minekura has written a story that while very entertaining has the ability to be analysed to death. If you are are trying to get into Minekura's head, understanding cultural conditioning, mores and perspective is definitively useful.

But, again relevence. Why should a fanfic author even bother paying attention to this. Especially since, in the case of most of us here, we are probably not writing for a Japanese audience. While I can't make a judgement call on the behalf of other authors, I can comment on my own feelings as a writer and reader.

Having at least some awareness of social interactions and their differences lends depth to your stories. If the reader is like me and has been watching anime for years, one can't help but pick up some understanding of the social mores of Japan, at least on the subconscious level. (Keep in mind that Japanese manga and anime just like Western entertainment streach and bend those rules) This being acknowledged while one might not know why, something that breaks these mores in a fic will seem off.

Still, this does not mean you need to conform your fic to follow the mores depicted in that universe. After all, your audience is not Japanese but, from a different culture. Just keep in mind though that changing the mores of the character often ends up the reason behind why characters end up OOC.

From here I could easily get side tracked into discussing the individual outcast in Western shows versus the unique person who conforms to the group in Japanese shows. Instead, I'll end this on this thought, if you try to look at their actions from a Japanese viewpoint, it gives you more foder for plot bunnies. ;D

Me-Nuriko: That is an excellant question and I have some thoughts on that but, there are some books I want to check over to refresh my mind on the subject. So for now i'm going to crawl back in bed and try to get some more sleep.

Disclaimer: I do not propose to claim to be an expert on Japanese culture. I'm suffering from a sinus infection so I apologize if this is not as coherent or eloquent as it could be. I tried to be succinct but, I know I'm failing. I do tend to go on when I get started on something interesting. *^^*

[cesmith]

As a Westerner, I look at Gojo's amount of touching each of them as being based on his relationship with them. He and Sanzo are always butting heads. What better way to irritate/annoy/infuriate a person than to do that which they most dislike. All he has to do is go near him or touch him and he gets the desired reaction. With Goku, the little brother, there is a certain amount of touching. There is the playful big brother, the confidential/conspiratorial (against your "parents, Hakkai and Sanzo) and the emotional touching when he's down and needs that shoulder. Hakkai is probably the one person he loves and respect the most in his life, even more than Jien. He knows Hakkai's formality, his past and his feelings about himself. Gojyo would never do anything to make the one person he cares about more than himself, uncomfortable, therefore he respects Hakkai's personal and emotional space.

Also want to add that Gojyo is a touchy-feely type of person. His life revolves around emotion and physical contact. It's not surprising he expresses his interactions with these three through touch. His lack of touching Hakkai, all the more emphasises his level of caring for him, and to some extent, the lack of, for Sanzo.

[Me-Nuriko]

cesmith: I was about to write almost exactly what you wrote, but since you already did it I can only say, yes, I think so, too.

[kanshu]

What is it with Japanese and the Hot Spring baths? Almost every series/manga has some Onzen (sp?) episode or chapter in it...

And their way of taking a bath is quite different... you wash yourself before entering the tub...
Is there a reason for that?

[Me-Nuriko]

You wash before the bath not to dirty the water. The water in the tub is not for cleansing, but for enjoyment.

[Salmastryon]

A lot of this goes back to Shinto and the importance placed on cleanliness. Hot springs were often seen as sacred spots. You needed to cleanse yourself before entering the spring. For the Japanese, you don't take a bath to clean your body but to relax and cleanse your spirit.

You can also see the cultural impact of this in the language and society. Kirei the word for pretty literally means clean. There was a whole caste call the unclean who dealt with any job related to death or other aspects of life the Japanese saw as unclean.

If you were found out to be of that caste no one wanted to marry, befriend or even come close to you. They were paid by putting the money on long poles because of the fear of contamination. If you didn't take on the same job as your father or grandfather it didn't matter.

In the case of the unclean, it truly was the sins of the father were visited on the son. When I did my paper on the topic, in more tradtional area of japan they still did background checks to make sure you didn't belong to that minority even though the stigma associated with the jobs they did has long past.

But, I wander into long side topics again. Just keep in mind that numorous factors contribute to things. After all Japan has tons of hot springs due to being a volcanic chain.

[kanshu]

No, actually I find this very interesting!

I've read that in public baths, males and females often bath nude, just separated by a foot-high wall.... is that true? In the animes and manga, you always see the guys trying to get a peak when they are in the onzens, and the walls are high!

And are there any special things one has to keep in mind when setting a table?

And... what's it with all the flowers in the mangas?

(Runs for cover... Oi, past midnight. *poof*)

[Salmastryon]

umm... I'll get back to you on the table setting I can't give a coherent rply on that one.

On flowers, It probably has something to do with Ikebana. Ike bana is the Japanese art of flower arranging. Since it comes out of zen roots and can take a lifetime to master, Believe me when I tell you this sin't just sticking some flowers in a vase to look pretty. More on it here:
www.japan-zone.com/culture/ikebana.shtml

All young girls learn cooking, and ikebana traditionally. I don't know when it happened, but at some point the Japanese got their hands on the books about the meaning of flowers. Most young Japanese girls know all the important ones by heart. Unfortunately for us Westerners, flower language has gone out of style in the west. Here's a resource to help you understand what ever Japanese school girl already knows:
www.earthlypursuits.com/FlowerLanguage.htm

I'll put the later one under references when I wake up. *toddles off to bed*

[kanshu]

Oh, that's quite interesting... is that the same meaning like for western flowers?
The secret message coding system is interesting... and if only the girls lean it, could it be used as a secret language of sort that the males don't understand?

[kitsuneoni]

Coming from Italy, when I went to Japan I really noticed the difference in personal space and social behavior...

It really makes me think when I'm writing, because things that seem normal for me don't work in the rest of the world (or parts of it). The whole kissing of each cheek always shocks new Japanese friends of mine if they've never been outside of Japan before. *g* It's funny.

I really noticed that in Japan much attention is paid to a person's importance, especially when it comes to the world of work etc... as well as in family, if they're very traditional. I find it amazing (and complicated).

In contrast we seem a lot more informal!

[cesmith]

My friend who was born in Italy and now lives in the US is always telling me how much less formal WE are than the way she was raised.

It's not hard to imagine a person's importance being measured by the job they do, we do that through titles before the profession (Dr., Professor, Reverend) and the way they are treated by society and the income they earn. Each job has a different level of worth as judged by the people. The trouble is, some of the most important jobs are the ones looked down upon by many societies.

Importance in family is also understandable. First born, Oldest living relative, Grandparents, all people who have earned respect, or are given it due to longevity and Family position.

I'm a very informal person. I dress that way too, most of the time, but my personal space is well defined. I can deal with hugs from aquaintances, but a kiss on each cheek might make me uncomfortable. It's what you are used to that helps define what you are comfortable with.

[kitsuneoni]

I actually don't mind a kiss on each cheek, and find hugs a lot more intimate.
It's true that Italians are more formal compared to Americans. It's mostly because the English language doesn't have different modes of address.

In Italian you refer to someone with "lei" if you don't know them well or you are being formal, just like the French "vous". In English it's all "you"...

Just like for my Italian teachers I say good morning, etc whereas for English teachers I just say "ciao".