My character is immortal - what now?

[kanshu]

Character immortality!
On first look, immortal characters are aboring. They can never die and they live forever...
On second look, diving into an immortal character can bring interesting insights, and offer a real challenge for authors.

So, here's my question to all of you:

-- Have you ever created a character who was immortal?
-- What do you like about an immortal character?
-- What do you hate about an immortal character?
--How does your immortal character react to his/her immortality?
-- How does the mortality of others influence an immortal character?
-- Is an immortal character able to love, or do they just stop to care after the milennia they spend on the planet?
-- What does an immortal do to fight boredom?
-- How does an immortal deal with the wealth of experience they gather?
-- Would an immortal be rich, poor or not bothering about money at all?
-- (Insert your own questions here)



So, what are your two cents on the topic?

[KarotsaMused]

Well, *pulls self into cross-legged position* my two favorite immortals are Crowley and Aziraphale. I've never created any of my own, but interacting with gods and other ethereal beings is, as you have already stated, quite a challenge.

I myself took the low route and forced a human body on Crowley because, well, the subject is too huge to deal with. Immortal characters are unable to experience human love for their laziness, their perpetual natures that allow for apathy instead of packing the most into every moment before death. They have no death to fear, so there is no urgency of emotion and boredom comes hot on the heels of fulfillment.
Crowley himself sleeps unpleasant centuries away, only corresponds with Aziraphale once every fifty years or so (before The Big Event, of course), and takes meticulous time to spread little sins around the world in ripples. When one has centuries, millenia to contemplate, one develops a sort of patience or a sort of laziness.

Thus, I like immortals because: They are -so- freakin' mellow. At least among themselves. There is no death to fear, so even wars made to create a little interest aren't all that terrible (to them, at least). And because immortals usually come along with a gamut of powers, they're fun to use when meddling with humans.

And yet there's not a lot of depth that a human can explore. Being finite by nature, it's very hard to synthesize even the concept of centuries' worth of knowledge, memories, experiences, and the knowledge that it will go on and on and on. Where we contemplate our own deaths and eternity dead in a box, they are going to be awake to see it, armaggeddon pending.

They may very well be jealous of us for that.

They don't have passion for racing against the clock, and the relationships they do form with mortals inevitably end. Having to watch a loved one age while you stay the same would be heartbreaking once. But if interactions are repeated, immortals must watch that process -all the time-. It would be very easy for a 'young' immortal to develop a fatalistic attitude, but as time goes on a weathered sort of maturity would have to take over.

As for bothering about money, you'd figure an immortal would care about quality of life, even if starvation couldn't kill them. It wouldn't be fun. And that would be tough if your immortal wasn't a god that lived in an exaulted palace staring into a pool of lilies all day - jobs couldn't be held for more than a generation if one is careful and a few years if one is not. Names and locations must be changed, and as time goes on and the world becomes smaller and identities are recorded more frequently, an immortal would either be driven to become a recluse or perform some under-cover plastic surgery not to draw attention. (Or, in the case of the angel and the demon, just ask for another body from their superiors.)

An immortal among immortals is a tale of periodic lust, war, entertainment, and long stretches of boredom. And immortals among humans are worse off for though they may be entertained by change, they are in the midst of it.

[kanshu]

Very interesting, but...

-- how do your immortals "come to existence"?

-Were they always 'there'?
-Or were they created at one point?
-Were they human once, and became immortal?
-Do they remember being young?
-Were they young, to begin with?
-Do they face "overpopulation", because no one ever dies?
-Can the characters persish, despite being immortal?

[sheepichan]

^^ Interesting topic!

-- Have you ever created a character who was immortal?

^^; I've actually created an entire world full of immortals... but the story centers around only a few.

-- What do you like about an immortal character?

They're so much fun to play around with! *giggles* You can give them an eternity of happiness... or suffering... come up with different ways that they actually became immortal. etc.

-- What do you hate about an immortal character?

After a while... they can get kind of boring. If a character is immortal, then you don't have to worry about them getting out of a story alive... 'cause they can't die.

--How does your immortal character react to his/her immortality?

My main immortal character, Asuri, views her immortality as a curse. She gets bored really easily with it, and tries to change her world so that everyone becomes mortal, like she did herself. (There's a way for her race to become mortal by free will)

-- How does the mortality of others influence an immortal character?

When Asuri sees how humans' mortality motivates them to strive for everything they can before they die, she becomes inspired to do the same.

-- Is an immortal character able to love, or do they just stop to care after the milennia they spend on the planet?

^^ Actually, in my story, it's falling in love that turns an immortal mortal. It's fear of becoming mortal that stops everyone from falling in love.

-- What does an immortal do to fight boredom?

Why, start a rebellion, get exiled, then come back to start another one, of course! ^^

-- How does an immortal deal with the wealth of experience they gather?

They share it with others as a means of advice and education. If you share experiences, it makes them easier to deal with.

-- Would an immortal be rich, poor or not bothering about money at all?

I'd think they'd be rich... they have so much time to make as much money as they want.

-- how do your immortals "come to existence"?

^^; This is a bit simple in my story... (Poo on being complicated!) In the world where the immortals live, all your wishes come true, provided they don't hurt anyone, so there's always food, shelter, etc. ^^; In a sense, it's paradise... (However, there's always that oddball that's like, "This isn't paradise! BOO!")

When they first come to existence, the immortals start out as infants, then after every...oh... thousand years, they grow a bit. (1,000 Angel [that's what they become known as later on] years = 1 human year)

As for perishing/overpopulation, after an "angel" gets tired of life, they have the choice to just "fade away" (^^; To put it nicely...) in which they get a banquet in their honor before they POOF. (Although, there's really no point since you can have a banquet everyday if you wanted)...

Whew... there go my two cents... ^^;

Ja!

[duodono]

-- Have you ever created a character who was immortal?

Yes his name is Lucifel.

-- What do you like about an immortal character?

I liek how deep their true insights, feelings, and their partake of life can be. They are very complex and interesting characters to try and portray.

-- What do you hate about an immortal character?

My likes and my dilikes of an Immortal character are exactly the same. Because for the same reason of how indepth they are make them sometimes to hard to play in certain situations.

--How does your immortal character react to his/her immortality?

He really doesn't care. It's a miracle that he even remembers how old he actually is without beginning to remember everything else.

-- How does the mortality of others influence an immortal character?

It depends. Some can't handle it and find ways to either die or become mortal. Others deal with it, sadly.

-- Is an immortal character able to love, or do they just stop to care after the milennia they spend on the planet?

Yes. I've known story lines that an immortal has taken it upon themsleves to get rid of their immortality to be with their loved one (I love those!)

-- What does an immortal do to fight boredom?

It all depends on what kind of person they are. Most normally try ot achieve world domination. Or in Lucifel's case take large chunks of his life forgets them and starts new.

-- How does an immortal deal with the wealth of experience they gather?

I'v never really thought on that kind of matter before scince most of the experience they gain they don't want because it brings to many hurtful memories and I have not yet known one immortal to just sit down and wait till something happens and just let a wealth rot let alone become rich.

-- Would an immortal be rich, poor or not bothering about money at all?

They would not bother. Some immortals are immortal in the fact that they can't die. Then they don't care. Then there are others who can die but its near impossible. They might not care either. But those that just have long lives but could die as easily as a normal mortal tend to worry about such matters as money.

-- how do your immortals "come to existence"?

Well taking the example of my own character. Scince he is a shapeshifter he more or less appeared. He doesn't exactly know but then again he doesn't knwo much in the first place.

-Were they always 'there'?
-Or were they created at one point?
-Were they human once, and became immortal?

Some immortals are and others aren't (whoa second shortest reply yet!)

An immortal is created, or comes into being, or are human turned immortal.

-Do they remember being young?

In Lucifel's case. No not in particular. His memory works the same as a mortals though he normally picks what he wishes to forget. (most of the time everything)

-Were they young, to begin with?

They can be. Though as with my character no he wasn't his first form was that of a 17 year old boy.

-Do they face "overpopulation", because no one ever dies?

No. Not many become immortal/ choose to be immortal. It's is not a promising life style.

-Can the characters persish, despite being immortal?

It depends on a persons perspective of an immortal. Some say that the only immortals are gods, other are those who live for a long time but can die normally, others are those who just plain can't die and then the lateral can only die by a special hard to ahcieve manner.

[Ganheim]

Ohhh! This is wonderful stuff, because two of my characters (Koukatsu and Mara), and in a sense Giniro no Namida from Life of the Silver Tear.

OptiMoose said:

-- Have you ever created a character who was immortal?

HU-RAH! I mean, yeas.

OptiMoose said:

-- What do you like about an immortal character?

Immortal characters are a lot like other characters. Their environment and (most importantly) how they react to the long string of events that take place around them. Mine just take longer to get a grip on change and what's happening, possibly as a sort of sub-conscious balance for the short (as in finite) life of mortals.

OptiMoose said:

-- What do you hate about an immortal character?

Since the events around a person (and - more importantly - how the react) shape who the person is, when you're writing about an immortal characters you have to think of a lot more background that your guy probably has. What I do is I make rayku (my immortal "species" for Life of the Silver Tear "grow up" (aka mentally/emotionally) mature much slower than mortals. For example, Koukatsu takes centuries to learn Naskwin, whereas the humans who speak it pick it up by age 5.

I also tone down the effect of events on a rayku's (or just immortal's) life, especially as their lives grow longer. Think of it as weight on a scale. If, for each event, you place a 10g weight on one side, then another and another, each successive new weight will have less of an effect than the previous weights.

OptiMoose said:

--How does your immortal character react to his/her immortality?

Being immortal is a built-in thing about being rayku, so Koukatsu's thoughts on being immortal depend on his mood and circumstances. Sometimes he's glad to have "all the time he'll ever need", but sometimes he's bloodthirstily jealous of humans' gift of mortality (and yes, I consider mortality a gift).

OptiMoose said:

-- How does the mortality of others influence an immortal character?

This is a widely varying subject. The fact that mortals can have the peace of death is something that infuriated Koukatsu, at first. However, as he began to grow attached to mortals (willingly or unwillingly), he was devastated by losing them to one of the rigors of time. I don't think he's still jealous of the ability of mortals to die by the time of Life of the Silver Tear, though that's more because he's given up on having the peace and release from the mortal world.

OptiMoose said:

-- Is an immortal character able to love, or do they just stop to care after the milennia they spend on the planet?

To be sure, Koukatsu probably didn't want to feel love in any sense of the word (and I mean it in the Middle-Eastern sense of loyalty more than lust-based passion or sex or such). However, he enojoys learning and so develops a bond here and there, to varying degrees. He tries to not care, which is why he becomes a manipulative slayer, but it doesn't work out. God has other plans for Koukatsu. *wink*

OptiMoose said:

-- What does an immortal do to fight boredom?

This varies on the immortal. Koukatsu shape-shifts, practices to become faster and stronger if he should ever be hunted by other rayku, manipulates, and does all manner of other careers. Though these "careers" may be life-long professions to mortals, to Koukatsu they are little more than hobbies to pass the time - though his unwillingness to bond could also be a stumbling block.

OptiMoose said:

-- How does an immortal deal with the wealth of experience they gather?

I always though that an immortal would deal with the issue the same way mortals would. We receive the input, process it, and decide how to act / change our outlook based on that information. It just takes a lot longer for rayku than mortals.

OptiMoose said:

-- Would an immortal be rich, poor or not bothering about money at all?

Immortals can be rich or poor. Since rayku don't need to sleep or eat or drink (or even breathe), and because of these things they more often deal with money as an "annoying intermediary step" to interacting with mortals. Some do deal with material goods, some don't.

OptiMoose said:

--How do your immortals "come to existence"?

Rayku are created by god, they are. They cannot breed (not exactly), and they cannot be born.

OptiMoose said:

--Were they always 'there'?

Yes. It's just that not all of them were sent out of expelled from "heaven" at the same time.

OptiMoose said:

--Or were they created at one point?

Yep, created. Just like everything else in the universe (well, except one...)

OptiMoose said:

--Were they human once, and became immortal?

Nope, all rayku were created. They were immortal, are immortal, and forever will be immortal. Then the half-rayku (produced by rape, using human mortal females to "incubate" a tool for the rayku) are usually immortal, but because of their mixed blood they do not enjoy all of the benefits of their rayku bloodline.

OptiMoose said:

--Do they remember being young?

Yes, they remember their earlier lives. They had to grow up, mature mentally, just like us humans. They just keep growing up and we don't because we die, but that isn't necessarily a good thing for them, either.

OptiMoose said:

--Were they young, to begin with?

This could be argued either way, but I'd lean to no, they were created and weren't quite children as we think of them. For one, children have physical bodies. Rayku only have physical bodies so much as it suits the purpose they currently have.

OptiMoose said:

--Do they face "overpopulation", because no one ever dies?

No, overpopulation would require that they can breed, but rayku can't. They can be killed however, such as if an evil rayku is hunded down by Paladins.

OptiMoose said:

--Can the characters persish, despite being immortal?

Yes, those who turn against their maker make themselves vulnerable to His wrath, and therefore God or anything imbued with the "touch of God" (meteoric or just plain blessed weapons) can destroy them. So can prayer, which calls on the power of God.

This is a fascinating thread, a great place to discuss characters.

[kanshu]

Mmm... so the way you three describe it, all of your characters are not truly immortal, but they can be killed.

Wouldn't that just mean they have an extremly long life, and that they are aware of their mortality?

I see this in conflict to what Karots said about true immortals.

Sheepichan, your immortals are afraid to fall in love, but still they do, then get mortal, have children, and die? Or do they start hating each other and then become immortal again? Also, if you connect the immortality to a strong feeling like love, wouldn't hate, fear etc have the same effect?
Also, connecting immortality to "simple wish" would make it a very convinient plot device, a machine deux, where a given character can decide to be immortal or mortal as they please...
Plus, even if your world has limitless supplies, how do the mortal humans fit into there? And what about the immortals who chose to live in the human world, like your character? Is the immortality limited to their own world?

Ganheim, how would your 'immortals' achieve to create life with a human, if they can't even create life between themselves?
You write that it takes them a long time to learn something, to comprehend, but wouldn't that make them rather useless tools for their creator that are unable to adapt to crisis situations?
You say that the only thing that can kill them is the power of God, but a short time before you state that they can be killed by the Paladins, too. So would that mean that the Paladings possess the power of God, too? Or does that mean that the Rayku aren't really immortal, as long as the kind of power they are attecked with is the 'correct' one to destroy their existential fabric 'being'?
In your universe, you have a created number of Rayku. Is that a constant number (minus those who get killed), or are the losses filled up with new Rayku? Also, if the creator sees that his 'weapons of choice' are vulnerable to the enemy, why doesn't their creator make 'new and improved models' that don't have that weakness?
What do your characters do to keep themselves occupied? What keeps them from boredom? Does time 'flash' by for them, or do they feel the length of a 24-hours day just like you and me?

[duodono]

In a way.

People have different veiws on how an immortal is. A lot of your questions have to do on what kind of immortal they think is an immortal.

My particular veiw of an immortal fluxes depending. Though ask one of my friends and their ideal of an immortal is of her character Myra which is a channeler of a god and cannot die.

So like I said it all depends on on who you ask. It just seems tha the three of us have the same idea of what an immortal is.

[Ganheim]

OptiMoose said:

Mmm... so the way you three describe it, all of your characters are not truly immortal, because they can be killed.

I disagree. I see the definition of immortal as having a beginning without necessarily having a definite end. Take Tolkien's elves for example. They are born, but don't die (naturally, of age or disease or such).

OptiMoose said:

Wouldn't that just mean they have an extremly long life, and that they are aware of their mortality?

Yes, rayku do have an extremely long life; and when you say "mortality" in this case I think you mean vulnerability to some way of "killing them" (or ending their life on the mortal plane, close enough).

OptiMoose said:

I see this in conflict to what Karots said about true immortals.

After reviewing what Karot said, I find that I agree with most of Karot's statement, but I don't find any conflict. Yes, because rayku have no death to fear, they don't have to worry about rushing around. However, although they can acquire centuries of experience (such as Koukatsu learning to read people so well he's nearly telepathic, for all practical intents and purposes); humans are capable of remarkable leaps of logic, and because of this they can reach great stages of maturity that rayku can't quite understand because of the fact that they don't have limits like mortality. I think I'll ponder Karot's ideas in a seperate reply.

OptiMoose said:

How would your 'immortals' achieve to create life with a human, if they can't even create life between themselves?

This is a question that I don't think I can fully answer - perhaps think of it like cloning. They need a seperate system for incubation, and mortals are equipped to do so (since mortals have definite physical bodies, something that isn't entirely true of rayku).

OptiMoose said:

You write that it takes them a long time to learn something, to comprehend, but wouldn't that make them rather useless tools for their creator that are unable to adapt to crisis situations?

They are different from Humans and other mortals in their perspective, and that's why it takes the longer to learn, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't adapt to a changing crisis situation.

Think about it in terms of people: a child can survive and grow to adapt to a very harsh environment, and they can fairly surely adapt to new ones. Just look at the myriad of complicated cultures on earth, and the relative ease with which a child can learn to fit into new cultures. Adults, however, have more difficulty. Because they've lived longer in their routine, they're used to their particular life circle and if they were displaced to a new one, an adult and all those ingrained habits and deep-rooted experiences would be slow to adapt to a new place. This is something I'm learning all the more clearly in Japanese class, and that might be another good example: look at how easily kids learn new languages, but how hard it is to learn new ones as you grow older.

OptiMoose said:

You say that the only thing that can kill them is the power of God, but a short time before you state that they can be killed by the Paladins, too. So would that mean that the Paladings possess the power of God, too? Or does that mean that the rayku aren't really immortal, as long as the kind of power they are attecked with is the 'correct' one to destroy their existential fabric 'being'?

Meteoric = imbued with many powers. How I use it, I take it to include the "power of God", and therefore Paladins (using meteoric tools of whatever sort) can destroy rayku; so it's not the case that Paladins can whip out the correct spell or some nonsense like that, they're just calling on God's power to do the work for them. It's the same way as how we can drive a nail in with a hammer. A person can't very well get the job done with their bare fingers, but anybody can use a hammer and do it, and which person uses the hammer doesn't matter as long as that person uses the hammer properly.

OptiMoose said:

In your universe, you have a created number of Rayku. Is that a constant number (minus those who get killed), or are the losses filled up with new rayku?

That number is constant, rayku can't duplicate or spawn new ones. Of course, that doesn't mean that new ones won't come in from other areas.

OptiMoose said:

Also, if the creator sees that his 'weapons of choice' are vulnerable to the enemy, why doesn't their creator make 'new and improved models' that don't have that weakness?

What God can create, God can destroy (this is really a much more simple concept than many people make it out to be. Think of a bridge - humans built it, so by the same token, humans can destroy it). And rayku have the power of choice, they aren't inherently good or evil - they choose to act one way or the other, and at any point they can make the decision to change. Because of that, some rayku cause problems and therefore Paladins and others will go after rayku with meteoric weapons. Using meteoric weapons doesn't necessarily mean that the rayku will "die" - that's really up to the rayku, and on whether or not it decides to stop fooling around.

OptiMoose said:

What do your characters do to keep themselves occupied? What keeps them from boredom? Does time 'flash' by for them, or do they feel the length of a 24-hours day just like you and me?

Rayku feel the length of time just like you and me - though, like humans, they can choose to deal with it in different ways. Rayku keep from becoming bored by interacting with creation - though some choose not to interact with mortals, most do because mortals give the greatest source of entertainment (in a sense). Sometimes rayku can use this and act in positive or negative ways. Rayku can stir up dissent and unrest to see if humans will use dialogue to settle their disputes or watch as humans think of increasingly inventive ways to destroy each other.

Then, looking at the other responses, I have another few ideas that I might as well mention. Rayku can form attachments, though not in the same sense as mortals. Rayku don't have a definite physical form, though they can take one to serve a purpose (a body to them is like a tool to a human, it serves little more than to accomplish a purpose). Because of this, rayku can't feel lust (or any form of physical attraction), but they can still form an emotional bond with each other (and mortals, should they choose).