|
|
Post by kanshu on Sept 9, 2004 2:55:28 GMT -5
Actually, this would belong under the Mary Sue thread...  Cannon SueCannon Sue is when an author doesn't introduce an OC, but "hijack" one of the existing characters to be his/her atavar for romance. It doesn't matter if the 'hijacked' character is male or female. Cannon Sue can result in het or m/m pairings, and usually leads to huge OOCness. Cannon Sue's are accepted, though, especially if they come in the form of m/m. Personal opinion: A Cannon Sue is the (IMO) worst version of a Mary Sue. Especially, if the authors of Cannon Sue bash and look down on the Mary Sue authors - because they arrogantly claim they aren't doing a Mary Sue, and 'look at how great my pairings are, sure they are a bit OOC, but X is my fav character, and I'm not writing Mary Sue'.  I rather have an honest Mary Sue story than all that Cannon Sue falseness. |
|
|
|
Post by Terra Fire on Sept 9, 2004 18:49:21 GMT -5
...Um, I'm not quite sure I understand. But I could just be me, I'm a bit slow today.  |
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Sept 9, 2004 19:00:14 GMT -5
A Cannon Sue is a hijecked character that acts out the authors fantasies. The most telling symptom of a Cannon sue are characters acting wildly out of character.
An example of this would be say an Inuyasha fanfiction where Kagome was head over heals in love with Sesshomaru. Not at all in character or logical for Kagome.
I personally don't hate Cannon Sue characters out of hand. I like to see how the plot developes. If the author is clever enough and I'm entertained it is okay with me but, a warning that the characters are going to be out of character is much appreciated.
I do dislike most Cannon Sues in m/m relationships. Mostly because the hijack character acts like an adolescent swooning female instead of the swoon worthy bishie he is.
Does that help at all VG Terra?
|
|
|
|
Post by KarotsaMused on Sept 9, 2004 23:33:53 GMT -5
Sal: Canon Sue males are the bane of my existence. Nyurgh. They veritably have periods, burst into tears, and never -ever- have sex without saying "I love you". We'll call that Soap Opera Sue.  Opti: I totally agree...Canon Sue authors are dastardly fiends! *rubs Snidely Whiplash moustache* But really, any arrogance when it comes to fiction is irksome. I'd rather have a straight-up Sue than a sneaky one any day. It's easier on the characters, too  |
|
|
|
Post by Salmastryon on Sept 10, 2004 5:59:54 GMT -5
*tries to think if I've read a cannon Sue that entertained me*
umm... I'm drawing a blank.
Still, I think they are part of learning the writing process. Most authors go through some sorta phase of writing Cannon Sue or Mary Sue fics.
The more I think about it the more I think it comes down to audience. In general, there are exceptions, a Sue fic is written to entertain certainly the author and perhaps a small group of friends. That is why they tend to be fantasies that the general reader as no access to.
As an author matures, they decide to write for a broader audience. This results in the Sueness being toned down in the fiction. Still, though I think a good author tends to be in sync with the characters they are writing on some level.
|
|
|
|
Post by kanshu on Sept 11, 2004 2:57:26 GMT -5
Well, the danger of a Cannon Sue is that it's easier to meet "other tastes", have other people read the story, because you are not introducing anyone new.
So, no matter how much OOC you go, that is the only thing you can be told "Your X and Y are out of character".
|
|
|
|
Post by sorchafyre on Nov 23, 2004 9:35:16 GMT -5
"Cannon Sue", what a great term, I've never heard it used before and yet, it was instantly recognizable when I read it.
And "Soap Opera Sue", too amusing. One of my obsessive peeves revolves around the usage of the phrase "I love you". Perhaps I'll start a thread on that, when I have a bit more time. Something to do over the holidays, yes?
|
|
|
|
Post by KarotsaMused on Nov 23, 2004 11:49:35 GMT -5
Lol.
I personally have no qualms about fictional characters telling one another "I love you" ... under *believable* circumstances. I'm not a total cynic. But when Sanzo drops to his knees and declares his love for Yaone to the sky, you know there's something fishy going on.
|
|
|
|
Post by elven dreamer on Nov 24, 2004 4:53:08 GMT -5
Definetly fishy. Although I wouldn't call myself an experienced writer, or an extensive reader even (haven't been alive long enough yet ) I'd like to think that I can tell a cannon-sue from a story that isn't one. Sometimes there -are- good Saiyuki cannon-sues, but I've only found a few of them, and you probably would hate them. Haven't watched the series so I only have a readers view of the Saiyuki characters, and I know I've probably been mislead by terrible authors.  |
|
|
|
Post by KarotsaMused on Nov 24, 2004 21:51:44 GMT -5
It *is* very easy to be misled. And, the thing is, the character that is hijacked and becomes a Canon-Sue may in itself become a very good character. But it *isn't* the original, and that is the primary problem. |
|
|
|
Post by swallowtail on Jan 22, 2005 6:09:48 GMT -5
One such example:
Hermione from the third movie - bashes Malfoy up, steals somebody's lines, figures everything out by herself, interrupts the whole Sirius/Harry scene by having Sirius mention her name
It has been pointed out many times already.
|
|
|
|
Post by kitsama on Jan 22, 2005 15:49:23 GMT -5
I can't say I've ever enjoyed a Cannon Sue. I've read a few Inuyasha stories I thought were intresting and suddenly Miroku would suddenly fall in love with Inuyasha and start wearing make-up.  A few were kind of funny but some scared me. |
|
|
|
Post by kanshu on Jan 24, 2005 18:26:58 GMT -5
Whispering Hope: Hermoine in the movie was acting like she did with the official permission of her creator, and therefor, she was most definately NOT a cannon sue. However, if a fan writer would do the same with her, then you would be absolutely right. |
|
|
|
Post by WH on Jan 26, 2005 9:17:54 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I was not the first one to suggest such a idea.
It was posted more than enough times within the marysues community on LJ. And confirmed by many Sue-Hunters. I am only passing on news.
Yes, even though it was approved, a author can still have a real sue in a story/movie. The term "Canon Sue" doesn't just apply to fanfiction, ya know. It refers to the canon self as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by kanshu on Jan 26, 2005 11:28:01 GMT -5
Well, just like any other "original characters", the characters that the "original author" creates or authorizes can show all the trademarks of a Sue. Take the Saiyuki guys, for example. - Or Wesley Crusher from Star Trek. They all have the sound of classical Sues. How many popular movie or series characters exist that are wearing the signs of "abused, orphaned, pretty, lovable"? How many Lara Crofts, Luke Skywalkers and Snowwhites are there? Thing is, while these characters are 100% "Sueish", they are not Canon Sues 'per definition' - because a Canon Sue would require they were rewritten by someone else than the original author, without the original author's approval. (see for example: www.trickster.org/symposium/symp136.html - but there are much more pages with the same definition for Canon Sue) BTW, I strongly recommend this article if you want to avoid Sues of any kind: www.everniamh.net/articles/IYOCarticle.phpAgain, I agree that many of the characters that us fans like ARE Sueish - but to quote Betty Boop: "I'm not bad, I was created this way." |
|
