Fanfiction - unethical?

[kanshu]

I recently stumbled across an interesting page. The author (Lee Goldberg) raises the question if fanfiction is ethical at all, or if it's plain and simple theft.
Furthermore, he states, after attending a professional writer's meeting:

They're all struck by the double standard -- it's okay for fanfic writers to steal your work, but if they see something similar to one of their stories in your book they'll threaten to sue (or write very nasty letters). They said if the fans truly respected the author and his work, they should ask for permission before disseminating fanfiction (it's not the writing that bothered them, it was the "publishing" of it on the Internet). The authors I spoke to said they don't complain about fanfic or publicly forbid it because they are terrified of the blacklash, of getting deluged with hate mail.
Source: leegoldberg.typepad.com/a_writers_life/2005/04/hot_button_topi.html

The discussion that ensued on that page is rather emotion ladden, to say the least.

What do you people think? Outside of the plain legal issues (that fanfiction is breaking copyright law), which would make fanfiction 'unethical' - is it really unethical to write fiction based on other people's work an share them with others?

[Terra Fire]

Well, I don't know, this is something that I have been thinking about sense I read my first fanfic (about five of six years ago). I thought "Is this legal?" But for some reason, in my heart of hearts, something's telling me that Fan Fiction is 'unethical'. That it's not right or respectable to the original owner.

However, that hasn't changed my mind about writing or reading fan fiction.

[darkraion]

Fanfiction authors don't make money off what they write, nobody (assuming it's a work being read off a clearly marked fanfic site like most are) confuses the plot or characters used as being creations of the fanfic author's imagination, and no one- as far as my logical mind can comprehend- would blame the original creator for a badly written fanfic.

On the other hand, fanfiction draws quite an audience. It's a good way for people to expand their writing skills with people who are willing to read and thus, critique it. It's been my experience that fanfiction tends to get more of a response than original fiction posted on the internet, though there are exceptions to every rule. This make fanfiction a great outlet for someone wanting to sharpen and hone their writting skills, or to get started writing in the first place. And while I suppose it comes down to personal point of view, I think, were I a published author, I would find it flattering to know that people loved my work so much that it inspired them to write about it.

I don't find it unethical, as I said before, because a fanfic author doesn't get credit for the work they put forth. Then again, I suppose it does just come to simple point of view. What I don't find unethical someone else is bound to. Yet, I don't feel I'm hurting anyone, and that's good enough for me.

[kanshu]

Welcome!

It's nice to see someone new, and especially someone who posts so much.

So you write that you're not hurting anyone...

What about the original author and their feelings? Is your fandom one of those that has permission by the creator of the characters you use to play in their sandbox?

It's quite easy to toss out the ' no one gets hurts'. I know, for example, that Mrs. Rowling, who writes Harry Potter, specificaly asked fanfic authors *not* to write explicit material, and stories that would portray the charactes in sexual situations.

Seeing as to what many fanfic authors *do*, don't you think that she is hurt by what is done to her characters? It's plain ignoring her and going against her wishes.

Should she still feel honored about incest fics, teacher-student orgies and childporn?

[darkraion]

Hi! I am quite the chatterbox for my first evening here.

I will admit that you do have a point. I don't know that the fandom I've worked with has permission from the creators. When I first started writing fanfiction I was still a kid who didn't think at all about the legal complications of writing fanfictions, and certainly not moral ones. As with anything these days, there are conflicts and complications that come with this that don't have easy answers. To be honest, I can't say in either case which side I'm on. I feel for the fans who embrace the work... even though they might embrace it in a more perverse way than others, and I feel for the author because her characters are being abused in an undesireable way. When I wrote what I originally posted, I was thinking more along the lines of whether it was right to use those characters at all- not so much about the way they were being used.

I still say I would be honored by having fanfiction written about my works, even though I too would get a bit upset at the thought of my characters being used for incest, child porn, etc. but that's the hitch- you take the good with the bad, I suppose. It's the same conflict with free speech, even if this form of speech isn't exactly free. You've got me though- I can't say what's right or wrong here.

All I can say is that as far as I know, there have never been any wishes expressed against fanfiction by the creators of the fandom I work with, and I don't use the characters for incest, child porn, or the like- I even work with canon pairings. So I still don't really feel that I, myself, am hurting the creators.

[kanshu]

Mmm.. I'm going to be very provocative now, for the sake of clearifying this point in discussion:

so basically you'd say, while someone might actually hurt the original author with what they publish on the internet, it would still be okay, because the author more or less has no right to complain about what someone does.

You suggest that an original author basically waivers all rights for their book/drew their manga/created the anime/movie/series, as long as fans make no money off it? That the author's request or feelings can be plain ignored, as long as the fans have their fun?

And that, as long as no one protests, it's okay *not* to ask the author in the first place, because they should be smart enough to issue such 'please don't' in the first place and shouldn't expect the fans to ask for permission?

I understand that you would be okay with it, but think about this on a bigger scale. It basically would boil down to "The fans can do whatever they please."

(Please don't get me wrong here... this is not about *writing* something to be read by your and your friends, but publishing it on the internet available for everyone.)

[darkraion]

Publishing it on the internet... isn't that something we're all guilty of here? I'm not saying an author waivers rights to their work, but realistically speaking, what could be done to stop it once it's out there? It's the same thing with music- once it's published, the risk that it will be misused is there and no matter how many bans they use to try and stop the sharing of it people find a way to get around it if only for a little while. Even if ff.net was shut down, there would still be tons of fansites out there taking and publishing fanfiction.

That doesn't make it right anymore than illegal music sharing is, and like I said before, when it comes down to it, I can't say for sure who's side I'm on. Personally, as I said in the last post, I would take the good with the bad but that's not to say I expect every author to do the same.

So what are youy saying, when it all boils down? That we're all wrong and we should stop writing fanfiction because it might be offending someone that hasn't spoken out to say that they're offended? That even though we're not making money, trying to claim credit, or knowingly defying the wishes of the creators we can't do something we really love doing anymore? It's true it may very well not be right, but do you want to stop writing fanfiction? I know I don't. So I guess that makes us all unethical people... I guess I'm cool with that. ;D

[kanshu]

Well, first of all, I never suggested to stop fanfic writing. This is merely about *publishing* what you write on public archives, like ffnet.

Second, please keep in mind that this is a discussion for purely... how to say, philosophical value. It's not meant to make someone stop whaterver they like to do.

Personally, I think that it is, indeed, a very valuable question. How much control do I have about my creations? How much do I have to tolerate from my 'fans'?
And also, is it okay to go with double standards in these issues? Think about it how often there's rip-off of fan stories amongst each other, and how upset the ripped-off writers get.

I'm looking forward to the discussion. Because usually, there are a lot of interesting points broughht up, different opinions that help to broaden one's own horizon.

[darkraion]

Ah, in that case I will say it is, indeed, a very good philisophical question- so long as we avoid the more personal attachments to it, I suppose. I really am a bit torn on the subject, so I guess I'll just present my two conflicting points of view.

On the one hand, you have to consider what publishing anything means in the first place. Publishing a novel and having it read by any substantial number of people is, in a way, like giving your baby away. It might still be your child, a creation of your genes, but you've passed it into the hands- or rather, minds- of others by this point. Those people, the readers, don't own it, but with such widely spread attention one should almost expect some level of misuse. And it is, in a way, a gift to the people, isn't it?

On the other hand, authors are only human, and I'd imagine they'd get downright protective of their children. It's their creation, their thought and idea that makes what they present to the public. So does the public have the right to use it as their own, just because it was presented willingly to them? Does it count as a violation of the author?

I'm a bit of a hippy, in a way, I guess. I like free things (or maybe that just comes from being a jobless teen), and I like sharing things so long as it doesn't cross certain boundries. I'd never try and take someone's idea and call it my own, but I might like to use someone's idea in my own way (with regards to the creator) without legal or moral issue. I'm also a fan of free speech, but that statement in itself calls into question whether the 'speech' could be considered free, if part of it is someone's else's work.

[D-chan]

Well. This is a very controversial issue.

To begin with, I don't think fanfiction falls under the copyright law violation. That is, if there is a disclaimer--which many fanfiction writers are in the habit of writing. Nobody is stealing anything. They're borrowing fictional characters/settings/concepts. They're not claiming rights to them.

The few who do... well, all I can say is that they hurt our images as fanfic writers, and that they may be more happy in the Orient, where such things are actually legal. (Doujinshi, anyone?)

Now, from my point of view, I would also be very flattered if someone liked my story so much, they wanted to make up their own scenarios with the characters. Yes, sometimes squirmy topics come up and/or are written about... but that's a risk you have to take. Anyone who confuses the fanfiction with the actual work is an idiot. (I'm sorry if that's too offensive.) There is a stark difference between the original work and the work of fangirls.

And what about fanfiction written for anime, or books/shows/movies outside of US copyright laws? The laws are different all over, and it's hard to enforce them outside of the US.

Posting them on the internet... I admit, I can see where the legal issues rise, but I still don't see what the big deal is. I've never heard of an author suffering significant fan loss due to fanfiction. Fanfics are like advertisements--they keep the stories and characters vibrant and alive, and the fans continue to want to buy products.

It's a bit harder when you get to the emotional distress an author can suffer. But if they really have an issue with it, they can take a leaf from Anne Rice and other authors and simply say they won't allow the publication of fanfiction for their works. It's not hard, and it beats answering thousands of e-mails from fans asking if they can fanfic your works.

[kanshu]

(Well, I'm afraid you're not quite right about the legal issues.
Fanfiction is so-called 'derivated work', and as such is a breach of copyright. In addition, you can get into trouble with trademark abuse.

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=696402
and
homepages.nyu.edu/~rlt2/legalfictions.pdf

Also, check out the 'Copyright Disclaimer' thread. )