Hakkai fic idea

[kanshu]

Okay... I've posted the idea in a different thread, but think I just toss this into the air and see what happens...

Universe: Saiyuki

Summary: "Have you ever seen Hakkai drunk?" is what Gojyo and Sanzo wonder about. Hakkai seems to have an enormous treshhold for alcohol. This is either due to the fact that he's a youkai, or that he's.. an alcoholic or abuses alcohol.

What if he really is an alcoholic or abuses alcohol? What if he started drinking after Kanan's death?

- What requirements in the standard setting have to be changed to make this idea work?
- Hakkai is the driver of the group. Jeep can drive on his own, but still needs guidance by a driver.
- How will the others react? Both Sanzo and Gojyo do their fair share of drinking themselves...
- What possible solutions are there?
- How would the situation and/or solution differ if Hakkai is in a relationship with one of the other guys?

(Feel free to write it if the idea appeals to you. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to your thoughts and suggestions.)

[KarotsaMused]

Well, the first thought that comes to mind is ... how was this not noticed, if it just suddenly springs up? (I have no idea how Hakkai's alcoholism would be introduced) When living with Gojyo, he -did- do all the shopping, but after a while the effects of his alcoholism would begin to show, even with such an oblivious housemate. It also poses the question of needing a fix, and whether or not Hakkai indulges on the journey when he hardly gets a moment to himself. Especially if, because of his youkai constitution, he's already got a natural tolerance for alcohol far higher than Sanzo or Gojyo from the start. ...hm. It's a very big idea to think about, I'll grant you that one. I'm still wrestling with the concept before any of the other questions you posed...

[kanshu]

Well, with alcoholism, you don't start with huge amounts every day, and there are different forms of it.

And since he would be drinking a lot in "socially accepted situations", like when he's with Gojyo in a bar, or just think about how often you see the three drink sake/beer for dinner, it would not become obvious at once...
He sure would have the means to get drunk on a regular base, without the others noticing a thing in the beginning stages.
And from there, it would just be introducing the symptoms over time...

(modified!)
Just looked up a few facts, and it would probably be as effective to give him an alcohol abuse problem, rather than making him an alcoholic...

Alcoholism, also known as "alcohol dependence," is a disease that includes alcohol craving and continued drinking despite repeated alcohol-related problems, such as losing a job or getting into trouble with the law. It includes four symptoms:

Craving--A strong need, or compulsion, to drink.
Impaired control--The inability to limit one's drinking on any given occasion.

Physical dependence--Withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating, shakiness, and anxiety, when alcohol use is stopped after a period of heavy drinking.

Tolerance--The need for increasing amounts of alcohol in order to feel its effects.

Alcoholism has little to do with what kind of alcohol one drinks, how long one has been drinking, or even exactly how much alcohol one consumes. But it has a great deal to do with a person's uncontrollable need for alcohol.

www.alcoholism.org/acny/index.html

Alcohol abuse differs from alcoholism in that it does not include an extremely strong craving for alcohol, loss of control, or physical dependence. In addition, alcohol abuse is less likely than alcoholism to include tolerance (the need for increasing amounts of alcohol to get "high").

Alcohol abuse is defined as a pattern of drinking that is accompanied by one or more of the following situations within a 12-month period:

Failure to fulfill major work, school, or home responsibilities;

Drinking in situations that are physically dangerous, such as while driving a car or operating machinery;

Recurring alcohol-related legal problems, such as being arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or for physically hurting someone while drunk;

Continued drinking despite having ongoing relationship problems that are caused or worsened by the effects of alcohol.

While alcohol abuse is basically different from alcoholism, it is important to note that many effects of alcohol abuse are also experienced by alcoholics.

alcoholism.about.com/cs/homework/a/blwhatis2.htm

[Me-Nuriko]

How did Hakkai manage to keep it a secret?
How did the others found out?
How did they react when they found out?

You could say Gojyo has known all the time since they lived together.
Or Sanzo has known because nothing much escapes him.
Or why not Goku, he understands more than you could think. On the other hand, he hates secrets. So maybe he wouldn't let Hakkai have this secret, unless Hakkai has asked him to keep quiet.

If none of them has known and suddenly founds out: Gojyo would be scared, the man he thought he knew, shows to be someone else. It won't keep him from trying to help though.
Goku would be angry. He hates secrets, and I think he would be angry that Hakkai hasn't trusted them with this. But he would like to help, too.
Sanzo, depends on the circumstances when they found out. If Hakkai has done something stupid or lost control, he would be angry, too, but not for the same reason as Goku. He would be angry because Hakkai can't handle himself. If they found out for some other reason, like Hakkai tells them or they found a lot of empty bottles or something like that, I don't think Sanzo would care. I think Sanzo would think that as long as Hakkai can do what is expected of him, he can do whatever he likes.

These are my first thoughts, but to really be able to think this through, I think I'll have to write the story myself. ;D

[kanshu]

Random thoughts...

If Gojyo knew all the time, he's sharing Hakkai's secret and has to make up excuses/cover for Hakkai...

If Sanzo knew all the time, how will he justify to himself (or the others) it if anything happens because Hakkai was drunk?

If Goku knew, and Hakkai asked him to keep it a secret, wouldn't Goku be overly protective of Hakkai? What would being forced to lie do to Goku, and his view of people? And what would Hakkai tell Goku to make him keep it a secret, in the first place?

What would happen if they all more or less knew, but everyone 'kept it under the covers'?

And given that no one interfers or speaks up until the 'accidents' and 'mishaps' become too frequently or endanger the group...
What will they do once it's in the open?
Remove Hakkai from the driver's seat?
Try to keep all alc away from him?
Lock him up while they are in town?

Plus, alcohol makes it harder to control agressions... How long would it be until Hakkai would start to turn violent against his friends? And then, what?

;D

[Me-Nuriko]

Yes, the violence against the others in the group was another thought I had. That could even be a way to find out Hakkai's problem. Say, for example that he loses control and beats Gojyo up! How would Hakkai feel later when he has sobered up? How would Gojyo feel, being kind of betrayed by the one he trusts the most?

Whatever they know or however they found out, when it's in the open they have to act. How? Well, first of all they wouldn't let him drive. I don't think they would lock him up, but they wouldn't leave him alone. Sanzo would be very angry because he wouldn't want to babysit Hakkai. (But he would do it, because he really cares for him.) Hm, suddenly I'm not even sure he would be angry. Hmmm.
I'm not sure how one deals with an alcoholic to to make him deal with the world without alcohol. I have no experience in this. Is it best to keep all alcohole away, or is it better to decrease the amount over time?

I think this could be a very interesting story.

[kanshu]

Well... first of all, Hakkai has to realize and admit that he has a problem.
You can't 'make' someone stop drinking on the long run. They have to do that by themselves...

Here's some more info (shortened) from the page above, which I think, contain a couple of very good ideas that can be used in reverse as problems/mistakes that the others or Hakkai experience:

Stop all "rescue missions." Family members often try to protect an alcoholic from the results of his or her behavior by making excuses to others about his or her drinking and by getting him or her out of alcohol-related jams. It is important to stop all such rescue attempts immediately, so that the alcoholic will fully experience the harmful effects of his or her drinking--and thereby become more motivated to stop.

Time your intervention. Plan to talk with the drinker shortly after an alcohol-related problem has occurred--for example, a serious family argument in which drinking played a part or an alcohol-related accident. Also choose a time when he or she is sober, when both of you are in a calm frame of mind, and when you can speak privately.

Be specific. Tell the family member that you are concerned about his or her drinking and want to be supportive in getting help. Back up your concern with examples of the ways in which his or her drinking has caused problems for both of you, including the most recent incident.

State the consequences. Tell the family member that until he or she gets help, you will carry out consequences--not to punish the drinker, but to protect yourself from the harmful effects of the drinking. These may range from refusing to go with the person to any alcohol-related social activities to moving out of the house. Do not make any threats you are not prepared to carry out.

Be ready to help. Gather information in advance about local treatment options. If the person is willing to seek help, call immediately for an appointment with a treatment program counselor. Offer to go with the family member on the first visit to a treatment program and/or AA meeting.

Call on a friend. If the family member still refuses to get help, ask a friend to talk with him or her, using the steps described above. A friend who is a recovering alcoholic may be particularly persuasive, but any caring, nonjudgmental friend may be able to make a difference. The intervention of more than one person, more than one time, is often necessary to persuade an alcoholic person to seek help.

Find strength in numbers. With the help of a professional therapist, some families join with other relatives and friends to confront an alcoholic as a group. While this approach may be effective, it should only be attempted under the guidance of a therapist who is experienced in this kind of group intervention.

Get support. Whether or not the alcoholic family member seeks help, you may benefit from the encouragement and support of other people in your situation. Support groups offered in most communities include Al-Anon, which holds regular meetings for spouses and other significant adults in an alcoholic's life, and Alateen, for children of alcoholics. These groups help family members understand that they are not responsible for an alcoholic's drinking and that they need to take steps to take care of themselves, regardless of whether the alcoholic family member chooses to get help.

Of course, with the guys being on a trip to the West, a lot of the things won't be possible, but then, Hakkai is the person who could bring up enough strength to actually get through this in the end...

And some more thoughts...

How would Hakkai react to all their sudden interest in his "problem"?

If you have him in a relationship with someone, how would it influence his relationship to the person, before and afterwards?

[Me-Nuriko]

Thanks, that page can help me with the original novel I'm having an idea for. (In it there is a girl with a drinking problem.)

Strength, yes. I have enough faith in Hakkai that he could come out of this. The Sanzo-ikkou probably have that faith, too.

How Hakkai, would react? He would probably be angry, in his quiet, stubborn way. At least if he's not so drunk that he loses his selfcontrol. Then he would be actively angry. I think he would refuse the help at the beginning. Something must happen first that makes him see that he needs help.

[kanshu]

If you are looking for "first hand reports", check out
www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/

How about the rest of you creative writers? Any general thoughts and ideas of how to deal with such a serious topic in a story?